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What are your opinions of the respective VP picks?

post #1 of 46
Thread Starter 

How about a little politics?

 

Relating it to the environment, here is an interview with Biden (Obama's VP) on energy and environment.  Personally I really like his positions.

 

With Palin (McCain's VP), she's so new to politics that not much is known about her environmental positions.  She seems to favor drilling in ANWR, her husband works for oil company BP, but she also successfully taxed the profits of oil companies in Alaska.  Basically she's very pro-drilling, but not necessarily in the pockets of Big Oil.

 

Polls have shown that most people know jack squat about Palin.  She's been governor of Alaska for about 20 months.  Prior to that she was mayor of a city with a population of around 6,000.  She also won some beauty pageant at one point.  Coincidentally, the population of Alaska is only slightly higher than the population of the district for which Obama was state senator for 8 years.  So inexperience is out the window.

 

My personal opinion is that Biden was a very good pick by Obama.  He balances out the criticism of inexperience, particularly on foreign policy, he's good on the environment, has a great personal story, etc.

 

I also think Palin was an incredibly dumb choice by McCain.  One of his best criticisms of Obama was the difference in experience.  That's completely shot now.  McCain is 72 and not in superb health, so Palin could very easily become the president of the US if they're elected.  And her experience is limited to governing the 3rd-least populated state in the country for 20 months.  Wow.  She doesn't bring the economic strength to balance out McCain's weakness on that issue like Romney would have.  Basically as far as I can see, the only thing she brings to the ticket is her ovaries.

 

It seems like the choice is purely an attempt to woo disgruntled former Hillary voters, but just a couple days ago Hillary did a great job convincing them to vote for Obama.  I'm not sure McCain could have made a worse pick.  The only upside is that it's drawn all the attention away from Obama's speech at the convention last night (which coincidentally, was a really great speech).

 

What does everyone else think?

post #2 of 46
Thread Starter 

Hank Green over at EcoGeek weighed in on the VPs today as well.

post #3 of 46

Yeah, I have to say...I know nothing about Palin (like a lot of other folks out there).  It does seem a little ridiculous that the Republican party (and of course McCain in particular) can bash Obama on his "lack of experience"...to then turn around and pick a newbie like Palin?  Well...I take it back.  It doesn't seem ridiculous.  It is ridiculous.

post #4 of 46
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stins:

Yeah, I have to say...I know nothing about Palin (like a lot of other folks out there).  It does seem a little ridiculous that the Republican party (and of course McCain in particular) can bash Obama on his "lack of experience"...to then turn around and pick a newbie like Palin?  Well...I take it back.  It doesn't seem ridiculous.  It is ridiculous.


 

Indeed.  Even more ridiciulous is that many conservatives are trying to argue that Palin has more experience than Obama.  The convoluted logic being that as governor, her experience is executive experience, which neither Obama or Biden (or McCain) has.

 

Of course, she also has zero foreign and national policy experience.  So I think that particular argument is just a tad bit desperate.  I'm sorry but being governor of a state of 680,000 (significantly less than the population of San Francisco!) for 20 months....not impressive pedigree.

 

I've read a lot of opinion on the pick today (because I'm practically the only one in my office today and thus not very motivated to work!).  Basically everyone agrees that it's a risky pick.  Some think that it will pay off, others have gone as far as to say that McCain has lost his mind.  I tend to agree with the latter.

 

One analysis I read wasn't sure it was a good move, but made the valid point that a 'safe' choice isn't a good choice for McCain.  He sort of had to make the risky choice because he's the underdog in this campaign.  Nevertheless, there are calculated intelligent risks, and then there are stupid risks.


Edited by dana1981 - Fri, 29 Aug 2008 21:27:48 UTC
post #5 of 46

I was shocked to say the least. Seems like an intimidated attempt to go after all the Hilary voters who have been claiming that they'd rather vote for McCain than Obama (no comment there...) but it really does invalidate nearly every criticism that they've brought against Obama thus far.

 

I'm VERY interested to see how this gets spun in the upcoming RNC...

post #6 of 46
Thread Starter 

There was an interesting interview with a journalist at the Anchorage newspaper who had a lot of praise for Palin and then finished the interview saying 'she's less experienced than Dan Quayle'.  Ouch.

 

They're also interviewing this rather obnoxious former Romney advisor who's argument is that she's a good compliment to McCain (i.e. McCain has the experience so Palin doesn't need it).  To me that's a very hollow argument, especially since McCain himself stated that his primary criterion for choosing a VP would be someone who's ready to lead the country (CNN showed a nice clip of him saying that).

post #7 of 46

Do you think it might be like the Harriet Myers (sp?) Supreme Court nomination where they threw her out there, listened to a ton of public backlash, then had her step down so they could slide their actual choice in with less resistance?

 

The RNC hasn't happened, so I think there's still time for some ridiculousness...

post #8 of 46
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deej:

Do you think it might be like the Harriet Myers (sp?) Supreme Court nomination where they threw her out there, listened to a ton of public backlash, then had her step down so they could slide their actual choice in with less resistance?

 

 

No, once a candidate names his VP he can't change it.  That would look indecisive, which is not how a presidential candidate wants to look less than 3 months from the election.  It's definitely McCain/Palin.

post #9 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by dana1981:

 It's definitely McCain/Palin.

 

When I glance at that quickly, all I see is "Pain."  ;)

post #10 of 46
Thread Starter 

It gets worse.  Palin on global warming:

"Palin tells Newsmax that it’s high time Congress allows the development of Alaska’s wealth of oil and gas. She doubts global warming stems from human activity"

Palin on Creationism:

"In a 2006 gubernatorial debate, the soon-to-be governor of Alaska said of evolution and creation education, "Teach both. You know, don't be afraid of education. Healthy debate is so important, and it's so valuable in our schools. I am a proponent of teaching both."

While we're at it, let's teach about the flying spaghetti monster!  She seems not to hold science in very high regard.

post #11 of 46
Quote:

No, once a candidate names his VP he can't change it.  That would look indecisive, which is not how a presidential candidate wants to look less than 3 months from the election.  It's definitely McCain/Palin.

That's what everyone keeps telling me, but the RNC hasn't happened and it doesn't look as indecisive if she steps down herself (with encouragement of the party.) Nothing would be shocking to me...and just so I look prescient, I'll say this is still market testing :) haha

post #12 of 46
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deej:

That's what everyone keeps telling me, but the RNC hasn't happened and it doesn't look as indecisive if she steps down herself (with encouragement of the party.)

 

Nah because then McCain picked a #2 who couldn't even handle the pressure of a couple days as the VP nominee.  That makes his judgement look terrible (even worse than picking such an inexperienced runningmate in the first place).  Plus most Republicans seem to think she's great anyway.

 

Apparently presidential scholars are saying she's the least experienced person on a major party's ticket in the modern era.

post #13 of 46

I think that's what I've been most shocked about...the media seems to be receiving her relatively positively. Seems like she's getting kid gloves thus far - will she have to go up against Biden in a debate? I would tune into that before.

 

Maybe I'll be pleasantly suprised, but I watched her first speech and read as many intro resources I can find and I can't say I think it was a good move. If the goal was to pull in as many "Hillary voters" as possible, the should have grabbed someone who was less conservative than McCain, not more!

post #14 of 46
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deej:

I think that's what I've been most shocked about...the media seems to be receiving her relatively positively. Seems like she's getting kid gloves thus far - will she have to go up against Biden in a debate? I would tune into that before.

 

Maybe I'll be pleasantly suprised, but I watched her first speech and read as many intro resources I can find and I can't say I think it was a good move. If the goal was to pull in as many "Hillary voters" as possible, the should have grabbed someone who was less conservative than McCain, not more!

 

Yeah I wonder if Palin were a man if she'd be getting the kid glove treatment right now.


I think the sentiment may be that if you criticize her right off the bat, you're being biased.  Like you have to give her a fair shake and point out her good qualities before pointing out her flaws.

 

Yes, Palin will have to go against Biden in a debate.  One interview I was watching on CNN said Biden would have to be careful not to crush her too much or people would feel sorry for Palin.  Which while funny, is a fair assessment.  Biden has loads of national and foreign policy experience, and Palin has zip.  It's sort of like Gore vs. Bush - if Palin comes out not looking like a complete moron, it's a victory.

 

Remember in those Gore/Bush debates when people were saying Bush came off as coherent and therefore he did great?  Man, that pissed me off.  Oh good, he's not a baboon like we suspected, therefore he's qualified to be president!  Plus after the first debate, people said Gore came off as too mean, so then he put on the kid gloves afterward and the second debate was worthless.

 

As for the Hillary voters, you certainly hope that most of them aren't gullible enough to vote for McCain just because his VP has ovaries.  Palin and Hillary could not be more different on the issues.  Health care, energy, global warming, abortion - you name it, they disagree.  But apparently the main target is independent women who want to 'shatter the glass ceiling', not necessarily Hillary supporters.  But Palin is so conservative (I agree, moreso than McCain) that it's hard to see her appealing to those moderate independents.

post #15 of 46
Thread Starter 

Coincidentally, I just saw a YouTube video of Palin as a sportscaster in Alaska in 1988.  Wow was she bad.  Incredibly boring.  Terrible '80s hair too.

 

It's amazing that she was able to get into politics.  I guess eventually she learned how to speak publicly, but man, she was bad as a sportscaster.

 


Also is it just me, or did McCain spend half of Palin's introductory speech checking her out?

 


Edited by dana1981 - Mon, 01 Sep 2008 02:10:02 GMT
post #16 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deej:

I think that's what I've been most shocked about...the media seems to be receiving her relatively positively. Seems like she's getting kid gloves thus far - will she have to go up against Biden in a debate? I would tune into that before.

 

 

I was, uh, surprised to see that her campaign announced today that her 17 year old, unwed daughter is five months pregnant! I'm sure that will go over well with folks...

 

 

post #17 of 46

I think Obama's pick of Biden was a bad choice. The reason Obama got the nomination is because he wasn't Joe Biden. I think Biden undermines the Hope & Change message of Obama's campaign.

 

I also think McCain's pick wasn't that great, though I am glad he picked someone with some executive experience, but he should have picked someone with more of it.

 

I do think the two match ups end in McCain's favor though. The critism of Obama not having experience still stands, IMO. McCain has experience and he can give Palin experience if he wins, it's experience in the higher position teaching the inexperienced in the lower position. Obama's match up has that situation backwards. I think that leaves him in a more awkward position.

post #18 of 46
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dordal:

I was, uh, surprised to see that her campaign announced today that her 17 year old, unwed daughter is five months pregnant! I'm sure that will go over well with folks...

 

 


 

Yeah geez that family is all about having babies.  First Sarah Palin has 5, the last one when she's 44 years old, then a year later her 17-year-old is having a baby.  That's pretty creepy when your son and gradson/daughter get to grow up together.

 

Plus what the heck is the deal with having a baby

 

a) when you're 44 years old and the odds of a birth defect (like Down syndrome) are quite high, and you've already got 4 kids; and

 

b) you're in the middle of your first term as Alaska's governor.

 

Seems to me like that's not the ideal situation to be having a baby, and makes me wonder if it was on purpose.

post #19 of 46

I love it when the world of politics and the world of trite celebrity gossip intersect. :p

post #20 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by dana1981:

Seems to me like that's not the ideal situation to be having a baby, and makes me wonder if it was on purpose.

I certainly don't know, but I'd hazard a guess that it wasn't. But if you're anti-abortion and anti-birth control, there aren't many options.....

post #21 of 46
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dordal:
Quote:
Originally Posted by dana1981:

Seems to me like that's not the ideal situation to be having a baby, and makes me wonder if it was on purpose.

I certainly don't know, but I'd hazard a guess that it wasn't. But if you're anti-abortion and anti-birth control, there aren't many options.....


 

Yeah exactly.  It seems to me like if she had a baby while 44 years old in the middle of her first term as governor, that's pretty poor judgement (doing the math, she would have become pregnant about 5 months into her first term).  If she became pregnant by accident, well that's the problem with being anti-choice, you don't have any options in that scenario.

 

Anyway, I don't think there's anything I like about Palin.  From her apparent disdain for science to her opposition to listing polar bears as threatened to her love of fossil fuels.  She sucks.

post #22 of 46

I caught the first 30ish minutes of Palin tonight. There's no arguing that she seems like a very nice, family oriented woman, but I was struck again by the feeling that she's not exactly Presidential. The first 20 minutes were spent re-introducing her perfectly normal, ups and downs (pregancy), American family. I love my family dearly and they're wonderful, but that isn't a qualification for national office. She then threw in some platitudes about McCain and some barbs about how being a mayor and governor has more responsibility than a Community Leader (Obama), but it just didn't feel like a substantive speech to me.

 

I'm looking forward to getting past the honeymoon phase and the rhetoric and hopefully getting to hear about actual plans for being in office...

post #23 of 46
Thread Starter 

Yeah see here's the thing - Obama was a state senator for 8 years, and then a US Senator for nearly 4.  Palin has been a state governor for 19 months and before that she was a mayor of a tiny town for a few years.  She's in no position to dismiss Obama as just a community organizer.

 

I didn't see the speech but read a synopsis, and saw that she criticized Obama for being a tax-raiser.  Yeah, except Obama's economic plan cuts taxes to more people than McCain's.

 

The VP debate is on October 2nd.  I've got it marked on my calendar.  Palin had better take some crash courses by then, or Biden will make mincemeat of her.  The only danger is that he might come off as too condescending and alienate voters, who sadly often put personality over substance.

post #24 of 46

Did anyone see the interview with Charlie Gibson? Did they discuss the environment at all? We missed it...

post #25 of 46
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwi:

Did anyone see the interview with Charlie Gibson? Did they discuss the environment at all? We missed it...

 

Yeah I saw it on YouTube.  Supposedly it was in this interview (though I must have missed this part) that Palin reversed her position on humans causing global warming.  Rather than admit she was wrong, she pulled the whole "show me where I ever said conclusively that humans don't cause global warming".  Then a bunch of articles quoted her saying "I'm not one of those who thinks humans cause global warming" and something about not being one of those "Al Gore gloom-and-doomers" or something like that.  No other mention of the environment in this interview.

 

Here you go...

 

 

post #26 of 46

I've been encountering great stuff from GOOD Magazine more often these days and they provide a well put together, witty video about the two candidates that's worth a watch or two:

 

post #27 of 46
Thread Starter 

The McCain campaign has essentially turned Sarah Palin into a recluse, but one who likes to have her picture taken.  At this point she's had 2.5 interviews (her "interview" with Sean Hannity was more of an infomercial..."tell me Sarah, why are you so awesome and why is Obama so evil?" sort of questions).  She had a meeting with some world leaders at the UN, but tried to ban all membes of the press except photographers.  She's not taking questions from reporters.  Basically the McCain campaign appears to be so scared she'll say something wrong that they won't let her say anything at all.

 

CNN anchor Campell Brown recently ran a segment telling the McCain campaign to stop treating Palin sexistly

 

"Tonight I call on the McCain campaign to stop treating Sarah Palin like she is a delicate flower that will wilt at any moment," said Brown. "This woman is from Alaska for crying out loud. She is strong. She is tough. She is confident. And you claim she is ready to be one heart beat away form the presidency. If that is the case, then end this chauvinistic treatment of her now. Allow her to show her stuff. Allow her to face down those pesky reporters... Let her have a real news conference with real questions. By treating Sarah Palin different from the other candidates in this race, you are not showing her the respect she deserves. Free Sarah Palin. Free her from the chauvinistic chain you are binding her with. Sexism in this campaign must come to an end. Sarah Palin has just as much a right to be a real candidate in this race as the men do. So let her act like one."

 

I think that's very well said.

 

For his part, Biden has made a few gaffes.  He made a statement about FDR going on TV after the stock market crashed - which happened in 1929, before FDR was president and before TV was invented.  Whoops.  But he's also criticized McCain on foreign affairs, which is one of the reasons Obama chose him as runningmate (attack dog with foreign policy experience).  And Biden certainly hasn't shied away from the media.

 

Still very much looking forward to the VP debate next Thursday.

post #28 of 46

Still very much looking forward to the VP debate next Thursday.

 

With any luck, Biden will cream her. I don't think its gonna take that much work.

 

It really annoys me that they won't let her talk to the media though, although I can see why. Today they made it 3.5 interviews and she defended her foreign policy credientials by once again explaining that Alaska is close to Russia (and Canada!)

 

I mean, she just sounds stupid when she talks...

post #29 of 46
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dordal:

With any luck, Biden will cream her. I don't think its gonna take that much work.

 

It really annoys me that they won't let her talk to the media though, although I can see why. Today they made it 3.5 interviews and she defended her foreign policy credientials by once again explaining that Alaska is close to Russia (and Canada!)

 

I mean, she just sounds stupid when she talks...

 

It's still 2.5 interviews - that was part of the Katie Couric interview.  But yeah, you can certainly see why they won't let her interact more with the media.  She just doesn't know what she's talking about.  The fact that she won't drop the whole "Alaska is close to Russia" garbage is really irritating.

post #30 of 46
Thread Starter 

Here's most of the Couric interview.  Palin always seems to speak in talking points, never going into details about anything.  It's very beauty pageant-like.  At the beginning of the interview, she did something that she did repeatedly during her first interview with Gibson, where she's asked a question, she gives a very vague talking point style response, the interviewer tries to get a more detailed answer, and she repeats the exact same vague talking points answer.  Once during the Gibson interview she repeated the same answer 3 times.  It's like watching a robot stuck in a loop.

 


Edited by dana1981 - Fri, 26 Sep 2008 00:37:43 GMT
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