The inside scoop on the Pickens Plans

Just the fact that he advocates natural gas powered vehicles is enough to discredit him in my eyes.

 

Why?  Just curious.

 

I feel like Pickens is by no means a martyr -- he's going after wind/natural gas because he believes there is a huge buck to be made.  Whatever his motivation, I'm glad for the PR and actually funds he's putting into getting these alternative energies into motion.....

I don't agree with him on natural gas for some of the same reasons I'm not big on hydrogen.  There's a lack of fueling infrastructure, and the current natural gas vehicle (Honda Civic GX) is roughly equal in environmental impact to the Civic hybrid and Prius, but is more expensive and less convenient to refuel.  Plus one of the most important points is that natural gas is a fossil fuel and limited resource, and one which we don't have large reserves of.  I recall reading that our natural gas production peaked a few decades ago.

 

Although while I don't agree with the natural gas aspect of his plan, I don't agree that it discredits him either.

 

I certainly like the wind power aspect of his plan.  He makes some very good points that there's a lot of wind available in the midwest that we're not exploiting.

Natural gas is a hydrocarbon that produces CO2 when combusted. There isn't enough to go around (certainly for powering all cars in America) and it's not sustainable. His plan is half-a** ;)

 

Edited by petera650 - Fri, 25 Jul 2008 00:29:22 GMT

Edited by stins - Wed, 20 Aug 2008 17:15:55 GMT

 Just saw this tv ad paid for by (and starring) T. Boone Pickens.  He's pushing this pretty strongly, eh?  Check it out....

 

 

A really interesting article by Joseph Romm today on Pickens' internal conflict.  He's a conservative who gives a lot of campaign contributions to Republicans (including the maximum to James 'Oil Man Global Warming Denial Propagandist' Inhofe), while these same Republicans block the renewable energy tax credits that would help fund the wind projects that are the cornerstone of the Pickens plan.

A billionaire from Texas supporting Republicans denying Global Warming? Wake me up when you have some real news, Dan :P

I read that Pickens owns a crap load of natural gas interests...

 

edited because I forgot that swearing is not allowed

Edited by mattress - Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:39:33 GMT

 

That he does, which is no doubt the reason it plays such a major role in the Pickens Plan.

Edited by deej - Fri, 05 Sep 2008 21:34:39 GMT

A wolf does not change into a sheep, at least for real. An oil exec is not going to give access to free energy. Search youtube for "Truth about Pickens Plan" that suggests he will set a few money losing windmill in order to get land rights which will really be for running a water line to drain off and steal our mid west aquifers and pipe it south. Ordinarily, he would not get the rights to run the pipe, hence, the windmill scam.

 

I hope I'm wrong becuase if I were King, our lands would be covered by windmills and solar farms in our deserts, all to power our homes and EV's. It matters not that this is not cost effective, because the goal is to deprive the mideast of petrodollars. It's national security, just like the Manhatten Project was, which nobody argued should turn a profit.

Exactly because it's a national security issue we are going to see action. This isn't about being green (as in environment) or green (as in dollars). It's about our survival.

 

 

Whoa, hadn't heard about that possibility at all. I find it a little hard to believe though that one would be able to be that vague/mis-leading on the land-use permits.

 

As for the decrease dependency on foreign oil - here here!

There was a very negative story about Pickens on Energy Boom today. Looking for a place to put a comment İ came across this thread.

The plan is officially dead now due to the financial markets conditions but several misconceptions seem to have 'snuck' in:

1)  Natural gas is probably the US's most plentiful hydrocarbon
2) Natural gas is much cleaner to burn than other hydrocarbons
3) The thing about water rights draining midwest water to Texas? - Like to see real proof of that as İ consider it would never be allowed by the gov
3) The Energy Boom article was after Pickens as he was not investing in vehicle efficiency - that is not his personal problem!
4) Wind and solar will slowly pick up over the years to come - there needs to be transition fuels
5) The only competition for oil for the next twenty years is natural gas - in years to come renewables will start to carry the weight but it will take time.
6) İnfrastructure for CNG delivery - that is a problem but İ believe it is a solvable one.

Pickens is a big business and totally cutthroat! Yes but he was trying to do something. That is better than sitting back!

By the way - getting H2 from Texas to Alabama - done by pipeline the past 30 years and still being done! The industry along the pipeline offered sufficient market so the pipeline appeared - it was and is a good business model.

The oil industry owns natural gas resources. They already have a monopoly over our transportation system...Can you imagine if they monopolize our energy system!?!? Yikes!! What will happen to prices? I shudder :( All electric cars have been suppressed by our government and oil companies for ...ever. It goes beyond GM; the original Toyota RAV4 Evs stopped production b/c Chevron sued Toyota for using the highly successful NiMH battery technology. The US has this technology and has had it for the past 12 years. It is now tested and proven by the government, the automobile industry, the US Army, and private citizens. Mainstream media does not talk about it & the general public doesn't know about it because the Oil Industry is sooo powerful and is maintaining its business model: a highly inefficient internal combustion engine & liquid fuel. Oil companies are pushing gas/oil, hydrogen, natural gas b/c they own it...we will never be free to have transportation choices.

http://www.twocentspermile.org/?page_id=79

The people in videos (above link) have been driving 100% zero emission all electric cars using the original NiMH battery packs from 12 years ago....does NiMH technology work? Are electric cars zero emission? Would this technology redeem the US as a leader in green alternativ¬e energy? A resounding YES to all....why aren't we utilizing the NiMH technology? Chevron Oil Corporation bought and suppressed the battery patents...now we can only use NiMH batteries in small capacity which keeps us hooked on internal combustion engine and gasoline fuel (Toyota Prius, plug ins, hybrids)...the suppression of this technology by Chevron is a travesty. Help get it back for the greater good...Take Action. http://www.twocentspermile.org/?p=2411
Can you imagine if they own our energy resources too!?!?!?

 

I ran a work truck on propane for ten years. Disclaimer: No Arab terrorists were enriched during the conversion process. That is enough reason to burn locally produced propane or compressed natural gas. I chose propane because I could get my hands on all the parts required used and dirt cheap. Total cost was around $250 including the tank. There is no shortage of places to buy propane. There is less energy in it than gasoline, but the cylinder detonations are less severe and less stress on the engine. I didn't notice any difference in acceleration, but I drive to conserve fuel so no jackrabbit starts or sudden braking. Oil changes are infrequent. If Pickens wants to make money from selling natural gas, more power to him. It beats the hell out of giving it to a foreign country. The jobs and tax revenue are better off circulating in our own economy rather than funding more nut jobs in the Mideast. Please spare me the the purist stuff about " oh, we can't do that, it's a FOSSIL fuel." Like it or not, the internal combustion engine isn't going away any time soon, so we have to suck it up and use what we've got during the transition to whatever comes next.

Electric vehicles are not on the market because no one wants them. They don't get the job done unless you live in a golfing community where carts are allowed on the road or live close to work and don't need to carry anything heavy. Lightweight short distance commuter cars, maybe. Not suitable for anything else.

Zero emissions?

I don't think so.

You are just transferring the emissions to the smoke stack on the power plant. Batteries don't charge themselves. You can't even get to zero emissions if you walk unless you figure out how to stop breathing, belching and farting. Making the oil companies a boogey man may make you feel good, but the reality is they deliver a product we currently can't do without for a very reasonable price.

If you doubt it;s a bargain, load a trailer with a ton of bricks and see how far you want to pull it yourself. After an hour or so an internal combustion engine will look pretty darn good to you. If that doesn't convince you, grab a shovel and start digging a hole in the ground for a basement. After a week or so, the smoke belching out of a backhoe with an internal combustion engine might be a lovely sight.

Work needs to get done, and goods need to be carried and for the time being, the biggest bang for the buck is the internal combustion engine that runs on gas or diesel. There is an alternative engine that has some possibilities here: www.cyclonepower.com 

It's about to get past the prototype stage, but probably not close to production. If it is successful, electric vehicles will not be a factor.