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950 lumen / 9 watt LED lamp

post #1 of 36
Thread Starter 

From time to time I review the websites of the various LED sources I've accumulated in the hopes of finding something new, and last night I did:

 

http://www.ledlight.com/detail.aspx?ID=339

 

If those specifications are to be believed, they put the efficacy at 105+ lumens/watt, the best I've seen in an LED lamp that I can actually buy (sorry C. Crane!).  The price is typical of an LED lamp of that brightness.

 

I'll be ordering one soon, even though I'm not sure where I'll use it, and will be sure to add it to the Products and review it once I have one.

 

A quick cost-per-megalumen-hour calculation of this lamp compared to the first 950-lumen CFL I found via Google comes out like this:

 

this LED lamp:

initial-dollars: 90
watts-consumed: 9
dollars-per-kwh: .1
thousand-hours: 50
average-lumens: 807.5
dollars-per-mlh = 3.34365

a similar-brightness CFL:
initial-dollars: 5
watts-consumed: 15
dollars-per-kwh: .1
thousand-hours: 8
average-lumens: 807.5
dollars-per-mlh = 2.63158

 

CFL specifications from:

http://www.energyfederation.org/consumer/default.php/cPath/25_44_784_1657

post #2 of 36

wow that's about 237 lumens per LED. That just doesn't seem right to me. Also by looking at the amperage, it seems like the LEDs are being overdriven.

post #3 of 36
Thread Starter 

Maybe there's a fifth emitter in the middle of the other four . . . ?  I'll try to get some answers via their Help Desk (offline at the moment but I can leave a message).

 

And yeah, I don't know what the 500mA spec is for . . . it wouldn't be for the 120VAC since that'd put it at 60W, unless the power factor is only 15%.  If it's for the emitters then I guess that puts their forward voltage at around 18V (not taking driver overhead into account of course).

 

Here's another one I recently found that I have similar questions about (from another source):

 

www.besthomeledlighting.com/product/PAR38-120-E27-W-12W-W

 

1400 lumens / 13 watts = 107.7 lumens / watt

 

I've seen identically-appearing LED lamps from other sources that have specs more like 900 lumens / 12 watts = 75 lumens / watt

post #4 of 36
Thread Starter 

Another one I am suspicious of:

 

www.theledlight.com/A19-led-bulb.html

 

it claims 540 lumens / 5 watts = 108 lumens / watt, but I have seen the same looking LED lamp from other sources with output more like 350-400 lumens.

post #5 of 36

This is awesome information - definitely keep us posted as you find out more - thanks Bob!

 

Also, do you have a recommendation of currently available options for an LED for a bedside lamp, or perhaps for a hanging fixture...I just moved in to a loft and it's all fluorescent tube lighting...brutal. Thanks!

post #6 of 36

The EarthLED CL-5 might be good for a bedside lamp - not sure about the hanging fixture, depends on the configuration.  I tried the CL-3 in my bedside lamp (small lamp with a shade, type), and it was OK... Less light than the 9 watt CFL (45 watt equiv) that was there before.  My guess is closer to the 35 to 40 watt "equivelant" range for the CL-3, the CL-5 should be good.  I think the CL-5 runs about US$59.95 plus shipping.

post #7 of 36
Thread Starter 

I suspect the CL-3 is just borderline useful unless you really do not need much light.  The 240 lumens advertised puts it in the range of a 25-30-watt incandescent bulb.  I have a couple of LED lamps similar to the CL-5 and they are useful in the overhead fixtures in my downstairs hallway, the 400 lumen output puts them close to a 40-watt incandescent bulb.  The lack of omnidirectionality in the output does detract from the quality of the light in a coverage sense, at least in my application, where the bulbs are mounted sideways in the overhead fixture, causing more light on one side than the other.

 

There are LED alternatives to tubular fluorescent lamps as can be seen under Products.  Usually you have to bypass the ballast though, not for renters or those lacking background in wiring.  But tubular fluorescent lamps are already pretty energy efficient (~80 lumens/watt typically), so maybe if you found some bulbs with a decent color spectrum they wouldn't be so "brutal".  Unless it is the flickering/humming in which case an upgrade to an electronic ballast would be called for.  But certainly if you have the option to install LED lamps in those fluorescent fixtures, and can afford the initial investment, that would be better from the standpoint of not buying additional fluorescent bulbs and/or ballasts.

 

For the bedside lamp, I would concur with SoCalSolar, the CL-5 would seem to be okay.  Tell us more about the hanging fixture you have (specifically the orientation of the bulbs) and we may be able to help with that also.


Edited by bobkart - Thu, 10 Jul 2008 21:28:29 GMT


Edited by bobkart - Fri, 11 Jul 2008 01:50:18 GMT
post #8 of 36
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobkart:

Another one I am suspicious of:

 

www.theledlight.com/A19-led-bulb.html

 

it claims 540 lumens / 5 watts = 108 lumens / watt, but I have seen the same looking LED lamp from other sources with output more like 350-400 lumens.

 

I contacted them and asked for confirmation of the specifications, they said those are the numbers the manufacturer has given them (540 lumens / 5 watts).  I asked if they could email/fax me any documents from the manufacturer containing those specifications and got nothing but "No".  When I explained that I am reviewing LED lamps for Eco-Conscious websites and this information might help generate sales for their product(s), I got no reply.  Even asking who this manufacturer is and how I might contact them got no answer.  So in the absence of additional information, I am taking a pass on this LED lamp, this is not the level of Customer Support that I find acceptable, the other reason being that I have seen the "same appearing" LED lamp from several other sources and those sources specify the output at around 350-400 lumens (same wattage).

 

I am definitely getting the feeling that some sellers of LED lamps are inflating the luminous output specifications to get a competitive edge.  There is no way that I am aware of (for an end user) to test such a lamp to see if it actually meets the claimed output specifications, and less-than-honest sellers know this and can easily take advantage of this.  I can't say for sure that this is happening with this particular LED lamp of course.

post #9 of 36
Thread Starter 

Some follow-ups on the other two LED lamps mentioned in this thread . . .

 

I finally got ahold of someone at ledlight.com about the 9-watt, 950-lumen LED lamp.  She guessed that there are 5 emitters in that LED lamp.  Color Temperature is 6000K, and she said that all of their LED lamps have a lifetime of 60,000 hours (although I think I've seen some listed on their website with less lifetime hours specified).  As far as the 9-watt, 950-lumen part goes, she could only say that "whatever it says is what it is" which is a bit of a cop-out, especially considering that this was right after we had gone over a "claimed" 600-lumen, 3-watt LED lamp on their website, "that must be 6 watts then".  In any event I ordered one of these LED lamps from them, along with three other models I've had my eye on (had a 10% off coupon for orders of $200 or more).  I will add to the Products listings here for each of them as well as review them once I receive and have a chance to check them out.

 

Regarding the "claimed" 1400 lumen, 13-watt PAR38 LED lamp at BestHomeLEDLighting.com, I put a question in to them about it, asked for some kind of documentation, he said he'd send a message to the manufacturer and get back to me.  I've dealt with this guy before and he was has been helpful in the past.  But I must say that if I were running a business selling LED lamps, I would have "on file" all specifications of any LED lamp I am advertising for sale.  I'm not sure how he knew in the first place that it put out 1400 lumens without some kind of document to that effect from his supplier.  Anyway, a week or so passed and just now I checked the website and the specs now say 1200 lumens.  So on the one hand I applaud them for their correcting their specs although the question remains how it was ever allowed to be wrong.  And ideally some kind of response from them explaining that situation would be forthcoming, to just never respond does not seem appropriate.  If anything more happens on that front I'll be sure to post it here.

 


Edited by bobkart - Tue, 29 Jul 2008 05:34:16 GMT
post #10 of 36

As usual, thank you. In an emerging market it's really tough to sort through and figure out who's actually shooting straight - I really appreciate your efforts. Give me a heads up if/when you add those new bulbs into the system and I'll tag the thread appropriately,

 

dan

post #11 of 36
Thread Starter 

Will do Deej, I should be receiving those LED lamps from ledlight.com on Thursday.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobkart:

 

Regarding the "claimed" 1400 lumen, 13-watt PAR38 LED lamp at BestHomeLEDLighting.com, ... ideally some kind of response from them explaining that situation would be forthcoming, to just never respond does not seem appropriate.  If anything more happens on that front I'll be sure to post it here.

 

 

The guy from BestHomeLEDLighting.com did get back to me to say that the real maximum output of that 13-watt PAR38 LED lamp is just 1200 lumens rather than the 1400 lumens I was skeptical of.  So that one would seem to be an honest mistake on their part.  1200 lumens is still decent output from a 13-watt LED lamp, equivalent to about an 85-watt incandescent PAR38 bulb.

post #12 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobkart:

The guy from BestHomeLEDLighting.com did get back to me to say that the real maximum output of that 13-watt PAR38 LED lamp is just 1200 lumens rather than the 1400 lumens I was skeptical of.  So that one would seem to be an honest mistake on their part.  1200 lumens is still decent output from a 13-watt LED lamp, equivalent to about an 85-watt incandescent PAR38 bulb.

That's totally respectable. Looking forward to hearing about the new bulbs!

post #13 of 36

That bulb is pretty heavy at 1.6 lbs. I would be interested to know if 13W is the actual power consumption or if it's just the measure of LED light output power.

post #14 of 36
Thread Starter 

My understanding is that the LED emitters consume 12 watts, plus 1 watt of driver overhead for a total of 13 watts consumed, 1200 lumens maximum output.  Not sure what the "maximum" part refers to, whether that is related to the emitter junction temperature or just the lumens-per-watt range of the emitter binning.  He did mention 1000 lumens "typical" output, so emitter binning would seem to be what he's talking about.

 

And yeah 1.6 pounds is heavy, most PAR38 LED lamps are though.  Do you have the weight for the LEDWaves PAR38 LED lamps handy?:

 

http://www.ledwaves.com/product.php?productid=19653&cat=415&page=1


Edited by bobkart - Fri, 01 Aug 2008 22:44:16 GMT
post #15 of 36
Thread Starter 

Just a quick update on my order from ledlight.com, these are the four LED lamps I orderded:

 

www.ledlight.com/detail.aspx?ID=339 (950 lumens, 9 watts, $90)

 

www.ledlight.com/detail.aspx?ID=292 (600 lumens, 6 watts, $60)

 

www.ledlight.com/detail.aspx?ID=166 (300 lumens, 3 watts, $50)

 

www.ledlight.com/detail.aspx?ID=307 (120 lumens, 1.5 watts, $17)

 

Only the last one is working as advertised.  The middle two I can probably live with but that first one (which motivated this thread) is way off.  I'm going to give them a chance to make it right before I make a full report here, but in any event I will report my observations relating to all of those LED lamps here.

post #16 of 36
Thread Starter 

I just added a Product here for the 120 lumen, 1.5 watt, $17 LED lamp mentioned in the previous post:

 

greenhome.huddler.com/products/ledlight-com-42336

 

and added a review as well.

post #17 of 36

that would work great with Mr. Electricity.

post #18 of 36
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Madrak:

that would work great with Mr. Electricity.

 

I was curious what that was and found this by searching: www.mrelectricity.com/index.html.  Is that what you were referring to?

 

I will be waiting to add Products for the middle two LED lamps listed above, in case LEDLight.com does not pay the shipping to return the first one, in which case I will return all but the last one.  I have contacted them about the problem but they are taking their time to answer whether they will pay the return shipping.  They have a 30-day satisfaction guarantee but the customer pays the return shipping.  My contention is that the LED lamp in question is not even close to what they claimed so they should pay to have it sent back for a full refund.  As I mentioned I will go into detail once this is resolved, and no matter what happens I will report my findings in this thread.  However I will not add Products for any LED lamp I end up returning to them for refund, which at the very least will be the first LED lamp listed above, and perhaps the first three.

post #19 of 36
Thread Starter 

After a fourth follow-up call to LEDLight.com they sent me a postage-paid mailing label to return the "claimed" 950-lumen, 9-watt LED lamp.  Here's what happend with that LED lamp, basically I spent most of July trying to get confirmation of the specifications, and could never get anything more than "that's the information I've been given".  I finally decided to order it despite doubts about the specifications.  When it arrived those doubts deepened: the box the LED lamp was packaged in had specification on it, stating 5 watts and 700 lumens.  Pretty incredible that they can advertise such an LED lamp at 950 lumens.  And 700 lumens from 5 watts isn't happening either, maybe 500 lumens.  Putting the LED lamp in question on the Watt's Up meter registered power consumption of around 6.5 watts.  I'd put the lumens somewhere in the 600-700 range at best based on that number.  It's a real pity there's no way to have these LED lamps tested for luminous output.  I also tested the other LED lamps in that order, one I've added a Product for and reviewed here, the other two I will do the same for soon, the details of my tests will be in those reviews.  Anway I called them about this disappointment and asked that they pay to have it sent back for a refund and they finally agreed after a week.  The person I was dealing with was the same person I was working with to get confirmation about the specifications.  She was not very talkative about the situation.  A recent check of their website shows the same LED lamp *now* listed as consuming 6 watts, although the 950 lumens part is still there, I mentioned this to her today and her reaction suggested that she would try to have that also corrected, along with another that still says 3 watts instead of 6 watts, which I pointed out to her back when I finally got an online support chat going with her just prior to my order.  This outcome has me very skeptical of any of the specifications on their website.  It would seem that number are just being put up on their webpages with only vague similarity to the actual specifications.  Although I have been generally pleased in the past with what I have ordered from them, I prefer to be able to count on the descriptions of products I order online, and at this point I do not have sufficient confidence in LEDlight.com's product descriptions to place further orders with them.

post #20 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobkart:

My understanding is that the LED emitters consume 12 watts, plus 1 watt of driver overhead for a total of 13 watts consumed, 1200 lumens maximum output.  Not sure what the "maximum" part refers to, whether that is related to the emitter junction temperature or just the lumens-per-watt range of the emitter binning.  He did mention 1000 lumens "typical" output, so emitter binning would seem to be what he's talking about.

 

And yeah 1.6 pounds is heavy, most PAR38 LED lamps are though.  Do you have the weight for the LEDWaves PAR38 LED lamps handy?:

 

http://www.ledwaves.com/product.php?productid=19653&cat=415&page=1


Edited by bobkart - Fri, 01 Aug 2008 22:44:16 GMT


 

Our bulb is 1.75 pounds, but it is designed for outdoor use so it's fairly robust.

post #21 of 36

 I got some pretty bright LED replacement bulbs from two good sources lately: one had great customer service (eaglelight.com). One didn't (won't say but they were through Amazon and I let Amazon know). The LEDs I've been buying are definitely getting brighter and less loud and the coloration is getting better too.  BTW, there was a flashlight on the Eaglelight.com site that was really amazing - it zoomed and I've never seen a beam so intense. We took it to a big field near our house and we were spotting things that had to be a football field's distance away. So the brightness in LEDs is defenitely there if it's focused tight. the problem we've found is that for the ambient light like the regular bulb, the light from LEDs doesn't diffuse as well. We just ordered a new bulb eaglelight had and I'm hoping its going to do the trick

post #22 of 36

 I got some pretty bright LED replacement bulbs from two good sources lately: one had great customer service (eaglelight.com). One didn't (won't say but they were through Amazon and I let Amazon know). The LEDs I've been buying are definitely getting brighter and less loud and the coloration is getting better too.  BTW, there was a flashlight on the Eaglelight.com site that was really amazing - it zoomed and I've never seen a beam so intense. We took it to a big field near our house and we were spotting things that had to be a football field's distance away. So the brightness in LEDs is defenitely there if it's focused tight. the problem we've found is that for the ambient light like the regular bulb, the light from LEDs doesn't diffuse as well. We just ordered a new bulb eaglelight had and I'm hoping its going to do the trick

post #23 of 36

Great thread!  I wanted to add a recommendation. 

 

When buying LEDs, always request 3rd party test data.  This is data from a formal lumens testing facility. In Canada, we use Lighting Sciences (http://www.lightingsciences.ca). To be honest, there is no company out there able to produce more than 75 lumens per watt.  LED technology itself is just reaching 100 lumens/watt.  Then you have to account for the driver, heat loss and lens to protect the users eyse from the direct light source.

 

If you are looking for a great, low-cost LED bulb, a company has recently released a line of Par20 and Par38 products that truly output 530 and 680 lumens, respectively.  They are called Light-Based Technologies in Vancouver.  These lamps should be available online or through distributors soon.

 

Good luck!

post #24 of 36

Any more updates on LED's?

 

This is one of the doable things for most people - renting owning or whatever 

post #25 of 36

That's right, you can always take your light bulbs with you! Were have a ton of info here.

post #26 of 36
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobkart View Post

 

I contacted them and asked for confirmation of the specifications, they said those are the numbers the manufacturer has given them (540 lumens / 5 watts).  I asked if they could email/fax me any documents from the manufacturer containing those specifications and got nothing but "No".  When I explained that I am reviewing LED lamps for Eco-Conscious websites and this information might help generate sales for their product(s), I got no reply.  Even asking who this manufacturer is and how I might contact them got no answer.  So in the absence of additional information, I am taking a pass on this LED lamp, this is not the level of Customer Support that I find acceptable, the other reason being that I have seen the "same appearing" LED lamp from several other sources and those sources specify the output at around 350-400 lumens (same wattage).

 

I am definitely getting the feeling that some sellers of LED lamps are inflating the luminous output specifications to get a competitive edge.  There is no way that I am aware of (for an end user) to test such a lamp to see if it actually meets the claimed output specifications, and less-than-honest sellers know this and can easily take advantage of this.  I can't say for sure that this is happening with this particular LED lamp of course.


I happened to check on this product last night (the claimed 540 lumen / 5 watt LED lamps from theledlight.com) and now see that the specifications only claim 450 lumens rather than the 540 that I was so doubtful of.  And the Warm White is down to just 240 lumens instead of claiming to be the same as the Daylight White.  I'm not sure what made them change it to a more believable number but this reinforces my position that it was overstated before the change (by 20%).

Here is the link again in case anyone can't find it earlier in this thread: www.theledlight.com/A19-led-bulb.html

post #27 of 36

Hi everybody.

We have developed a good led spot:

LUMEN: 1400

WATT:       12 at 110-230vac

DEGREE: 60° or 120°

SOCKET: E27, GU10, CUSTOM

DIMENSION: 120x110mm or 120x55mm

LENSES: special treated glass

COOLING: 70% over the needed

PRICE: EURO 96,00

CE and RoHS certifications

 

We are building our website with pictures and movies but you can ask me at ingQuaranta@gmail.com

post #28 of 36
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by LEDison View Post

CE and RoHS certifications

 

Please provide the CE-ID of your product, so I may check it at www.ce-id.org/ .

post #29 of 36

Our CE stand for "Conformité Européenne" and is an official certification (http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcatura_CE).

 

Our products are: CE n° BT0806162008

 

Excuse me but "www.ce-approved.org" is nothing: the code thet give is nothing

post #30 of 36

Bobcart, i suggest you to think about mercury problem in CFL

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