Beware - LED bulb reliability

Oh, it seems the LEDlight really do something bad.
Then we should care more about Customer service, find someone can give us reliable and friendly service. Not just excuse to avoid any replacement or refund.
Anyone has expirence of buy lights directly from CHINA? As in my mind, most of the lights come from CHINA in a cheap price but sell in a high one local.
I have a friend who works in CHINA  told me that the same stuffs sold in a quite cheaper price there.

Uh oh; 2 more went out. Darn things are  as undependable as those imitation iPhones I hear about.

Merry Christmas

       (PS- A LOL COMMENT ABOVE)  Just kidding- bulbs are fine: hard to be series...............

Did USA still have such bad companies?Terrible!

This thread should not be able the unreliability of LED bulbs, as much as it is the unreliability of the RETAILER. 

I have bought Lights of America LED for 4 years now, and none of them have ever burned out. Every generation gets better and brighter, and my 4 year old 'cluster' LEDs still provide spot illumination in the areas where they can be most effective. 

People should keep in mind that some LED companies in the U.S. get their LED lights from China.

Also, just because something is made in the U.S. doesn't always mean it's good. True, China is tends to have a low of low quality stuff but that doesn't mean China can't produce high quality things as well.

I must concur with BMet about the title of this thread discussion. Unfortunately, there are low grade LED lights on the market that are manufactured badly or that don’t carry and actionable or fair returns policy. These products have given the industry a bit of a bad start since LED lights are an emerging technology - and one that will eventually take over completely. At Light Savers, we sport a return rate of less than 0.2% across all our LED lighting range.

BobKart - I'm sorry to hear that you lucked out with a bad apple there. Generally a good way to find a decent supplier is to first find out if anyone has said anything bad about them before you consider buying. A quick search on the internet usually does the trick. Also check their CE and RoHS certificates, while also looking at their methodologies of production and quality control. Do they test their lights before they go out? Do they import their products from China and simply resell? Check out this blog post – Choosing the right LED Lighting Supplier – for a solid approach to selecting the right LED lights from the right supplier in future. 

Sorry to hear that you've had difficulty buying LED's.  My company, SavingsLED.com sells LED bulbs and tubes at a great price.  Please check us out, and feel free to use the discount code, GRNOPTNS for $5 off your total order until Februrary 28th, 2011.  If you have any issues with reliability, we want to hear about it.  Within 60 days of your order, we'll happily replace or refund any LED bulb or tube from your purchase.  

We're real people just trying to sell a good product!

Thanks,

Christina from Savings LED

I am getting LED bulb information from many sources. This information source is reliable, I think:

http://www.gizmag.com/led-bulbs-found-to-contain-toxic-metals/17876/?utm_source=Gizmag+Subscribers&utm_campaign=f4889c9454-UA-2235360-4&utm_medium=email

Try LEDs at www.tuwago.com.  This is a small company in Silicon Valley but their partner/investor is a very big company making OEM LED lamps for GE, Home Depot, Carrfoure, and Japan's Iris Ohyama.  Their products are solid and the customer service has been great. 

Thanks for the information jazz568.

I see that their LED lamps are all 2700K (warm white) in color temperature.  Do you know if they'll be offering any cool white LED lamps in the future?  Say around 5000K?

Hi BobKart, 

Not to my knowledge.  Usually 5000k is for commercial use (office, warehouse, stores, etc.) and their product lineup is basically home oriented. They do have some MR16s that are neutral white but those are only available on Amazon.  I personally do not find any use for 4-5000K LEDs except maybe in the garage. 

i have to agree with jazz on tuwago's customer service and bulb quality. i bought over 30 of their candelabra LED bulbs and they are great. these guys emailed and called me to make sure the delivery was made because apparently the tracking number showed the delivery guy left a notice while i wasn't home. the call was sincere, professional, and yet NOT sounding like a customer service rep with a script. 

i just got their A19, Globe, and R25 reflector bulbs a couple days ago and ill tell you, this is definitely a company i'll be getting more LEDs from. the build-quality is excellent, very solid, not cheap looking either, design is unlike any other on these sites you guys mention, uses Cree LEDs, definitely 2700K as it is very much warm white perfect for my home, professionally packaged. i am surprised they are not on the shelves next to sylvania, philips, and the like. prices are super reasonable too. here are the links to all of what i had purchased. 

http://www.tuwago.com/candle-led/55-candelabra-clear.html - best candelabra LED i've bought. tried philips, utilitech and other crap online but this one is brightest and best value, dimmable too

http://www.tuwago.com/a19-led/54-cree-a19-9.html - really bright for a a19, a bit heavy as the heat sink is solid cast aluminum. but it probably serves its purpose, downward light is surprisingly good, using it a couple bedside lamp shades. probably going to put some outside on porch fixtures and leave it on 24hrs for security.

http://www.tuwago.com/globe-led/56-globe.html - seriously this is one of the most beautiful LED bulbs i've ever seen. it doesnt look like an LED, small heat sink, full glass bulb, warm white light, and it says it is rated for damp environments (called to double check and the guys said they designed it especially for bathrooms - the vanity mirror lights.) exactly where im going to use it. 

http://www.tuwago.com/reflector-led/60-r25-reflector.html - slim profile, pretty light actually for also being solid cast aluminum. light is warm white, verrrry bright and disperses like a flood light should, WIDE and no glare!, using a few in recessed ceiling and some in a track light fixture. 

impressive company, products, and customer service. 

It's sad to see people have experience.  I'm also a seller of LED lighting - I think it's mission critical to have a clear understanding of the warranty and how it is fulfilled.   When shopping for LED lights, my suggestion is to learn about the tradeoffs of the different specifications of what you are buying.  For example, the different LED chips, efficiency of the bulb, CRI, price, lumens - all of these can vary and it's important to understand what you are buying and that you are purchasing what is important to you.  Even the application - if you're not a lighting guru, it's best to pick up the telephone and speak with someone that can suggest a solution that is suitable for you.  For example, there are LED lights that work great in downlight applications - however, would do nothing but illuminate the ceiling in a table lamp =)  On the other hand, if it's a recessed fixture - it makes no sense to install a globe or an a-type bulb that will illuminate the sides of the recessed can - unless you are looking for a decorative lens on the bulb and are using a bulb extender (or make an adjustment inside the can) to more useable light is dispersed into the room.

Regards,

M.T.

From what I understand, LED's still aren't as efficient as CFL's  (candella per watt).  Is that still the case?  

Hi NoGreenThumb,

That may have been the case many years ago - partially due to the color of LEDs prior their use for illumination, combined with the electronics used to drive/power the circuit.  This has changed dramatically over the years.  LED lighting is approximately twice as efficient versus CFL.  

A good chart to look at on the internet is:

http://www.remodeling.hw.net/Images/EleekLampingChart_tcm17-102535.pdf

Another general rule of thumb to remember is that LED bulbs with higher color temperatures (if you look at a color temperature chart it spans from reddish to white to blue) often output more lumens than the same bulb with a lower (red) color temperature.  So, If you're looking to maximize the lumens - you're best to find a bulb at about 6000k (which is a brighter/cold white) versus 2,700k (which is a warm white)...

Regards..

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoGreenThumb 

From what I understand, LED's still aren't as efficient as CFL's  (candella per watt).  Is that still the case?  

That's a pretty cool chart, but the notes say, "Actual efficacies measured in application are generally between 40—60. This is rapidly improving"   If the efficiency is really between 40-60 that makes them way more efficient than incandescent, but still a little less efficient (at least right now) than CFL's... especially the CFL non-integrated ballast that I have in my kitchen.

For everyone considering LEDs as a lighting replacement I really suggest you look into Induction Lighting.  I have been promoting and selling Induction lights as a replacement for metal halide and high pressure sodium lamps mainly in commercial environments however with the pending ban on incandescent bulbs we are looking close at the residential market.  

I have a couple interesting links you should read regarding induction lighting.

A chart containing the benefits of induction lights.

Here is a technical description of how it is possible to produce 400 Watts of light with a 200 watt bulb.  It explains visually effective light which is very relevant as all energy which is not visible is wasted energy.  Think of how hot LEDs get... that is wasted watts.

Interesting!   Are those the lights that are relatively new and use a form of plasma to create the light or is that something else?

Rob: I disagree with your statement saying that LEDs get hot - I can hold an LED bulb all day and it's not hot whatsoever.  The LED converts electricity nearly to 100% light.  The power  driver in the bulbs may generate a little heat - however, that too is negligible.   and the amount depends upon brand.  I agree that LEP and your solutions are excellent solutions for many applications.

NoGreen: In reference to the chart (and understanding that different bulbs by different manufacturers have varying specifications), a CFL outputting 1100 lumens for 18W versus LED outputting 1000 for 10W  would tell me that LED is slightly more efficient.

Many CFLs also tend to "dim" very quickly - much quicker than LEDs, and also require time to "warm up" to color temperature and brightness.  With CFLs rated at a life span of 10,000 approximate hours - and LEDs anywhere from 30,000 to 50,000+, buying a decent CFL ends up costing not much less than a reasonably priced LED.

However, with efficiency and conserving in mind, the color rating index (CRI) effects the efficiency of LED light.  CRI is being marketed very strongly - and unless you have a specific need for color accuracy (displaying art, working in a salon applying makeup, etc) - it doesn't make any sense to pay more for an energy saving product =).

With that in mind, there are many LED products with an extremely high CRI, that may result in it being nearly or less efficient than CFL - and doesn't that defeat the purpose?

Here's an example...

12W LED PAR38

12W PAR38, 50,000 hours, 960 lumens @ 3,000k, dimming, cost $38.48, 80 lumens per watt

vs

Popular Competing LED Product

18W PAR38, 50,000 hours, 900 lumens @ 3,000k, dimming, cost $68.64 (on a major shopping site named after a river), 50 lumens per watt

vs

Popular Brand CFL

23W PAR38, 10,000 hours, 1,200 lumens @ 3,000k, non dimming, cost $21.24 each ($106.20 for five to equal 50,000 hours), 52.17 lumens per watt

So, all in all - when considering efficiency, there's a large dynamic here!  For those who are looking to convert to LED, I think it's best to consider (1) cost of the product, (2) efficiency of the product, and (3) actual use - as the lightbulb that remains turned off in the attic isn't using much electricity - and will probably never pay for itself.  Unless ... efficiency and going "green" isn't the objective, and a boutique product is desired ....

Regards

ps:: Not to get all entirely OCD regarding lighting, however, with efficiency in mind - there are also advantages offered by the use of timers, motion sensors, and solar panels.  With LED I can effectively light five rooms plus two exterior locations with led lighting with less than 100 watts total for all of the bulbs combined.  A guess-timate of 24 hour usage for all above mentioned lamps is $11 per month.  Not too shabby.  That's approximately 14 watts per 7 rooms or locations.  If the lights in those 7 locations were not in service by use of sensors, timers, or turning lights off; I think I can reduce the usage of electricity for each locations by about 50%.  In fact, if I'm only one person - and only need one location at any given moment, at 14W, I could be paying less than $2 in electricity per month for lighting electrical costs..........   $24 per year? I LOVE IT

I buy  smd the newest and better than regular led. from china who is out running the us in this area. they cost 6.50 each and ship for free. The greed of us companies is keeping the price up here. It only cost pennies to make a smd led and they want to charge 10,000 percent profit manfururating cost 1.00 consumer cost 22.00 to 25.00