Plug-in hybrids

Some new news on that front...looks like when Toyota starts making plug-ins, they won't even be available to the general public!  Good news for companies like CalCars that make a solid business out of conversions of straight hybrids to plug-in hybrids.

"Toyota's shaking things up a bit in the plug-in hybrid race. Only a week ago, GM seemed certain that they'd have the first plug-in vehicle from a major manufacturer. But then Toyota busts out with the news that, even after saying that we were going to be waiting more than three years, they'll be producing plug-in Priuses in 2010.

Unfortunately, they won't be selling them to consumers. Toyota says that they aren't sure if average folks are up for the extra cost and responsibility that comes along with PHEVs, so they'll only be selling to governments and corporations for the first year.

So it looks like the Saturn Vue PHEV is going to beat the Prius PHEV to market...but not by much. Any hiccup at GM, and Toyota could win the second round in the vehicle efficiency arms race.

Of course, Toyota maintains that range-extended electric vehicles (REEVs) will never be technologically or financially viable. At the same time, GM is betting heavily on its REEV, the Chevy Volt, which they want available in 2010 as well.

In any case, it looks like 2010 is shaping up to be a big year for automotive technology. Let's hope everyone can live up to their promises." (Hank Green, EcoGeek, http://www.ecogeek.org/content/view/1308/)

If only they would give a solar panel away with each Plug-In car.   ;)

Here's the problem... and I have driven a Plug-in Ford Escape many times, and helped develop one for a private company ( not Ford ).

Batteries, even the best, hold just a fraction of the energy of gasoline.

15 pounds ( 2 gallons ) of gasoline will move a Ford Escape the same distance as 300 pounds of the best lithium batteries on earth.  That means gas is 20 times more powerful than the best batteries money can buy.

So battery powered electric vehicle are good for very short trips, those in the 25 mile to 50 mile range per day.  It's going to be very hard, and take a very long time to get better than that.

On the bright side, very few people need to go more than 50 miles in a day.

-John

P.S. solar panels that cover the entire roof, hood, and trunk of your car will capture 2 miles of driving power, after sitting in the sun for 10 hours.  Now, 2 miles of power is better than none... but the cost to do that is in the thousands of dollars.

It's worth mentioning that a small company named Aptera will have the first plug-in hybrid (typ-1h) available somewhere around the end of this year, though first they'll have a fully electric model in production (typ-1e).

Available in California in October 2008, the Aptera typ-1e will cost about $27,000 with a top speed of 95 mph and range of 120 miles per charge.

http://www.aptera.com/details.php

Soon thereafter Aptera will introduce the typ-1h, a plug-in hybrid version of the typ-1e with a 40-60 mile range on purely electrical energy, and a range of over 600 miles total when in electric/gas hybrid mode, for around $30,000.  On a 120 mile trip, the typ-1h will get 300 miles per gallon.  The shorter the trip, the higher the efficiency.

http://www.aptera.com/details.php 

The Aptera is not a hybrid car.  It is not a CAR!

( It is a tricycle, and is technically considered a motorcycle.)

While cool looking, that will not be a mass produced vehicle any time soon.

A few, to a few hundred will be made for collectors and such.

If you add optional wings, will that thing fly?

:)

Yeah I just saw that - you guys sure are thorough!

Just like the ZAP Alias, the Apteras are 3-wheeled cars.  Though at first they'll only be available in California, I think calling them collector's items isn't really accurate.

Edited by dana1981 - Fri, 7 Mar 2008 23:50:34 UTC

#1 I am in favor of plug-in cars

#2 I have helped built a plug-in car ( but could not afford to buy it )

#3 I am working on getting a plug-in car for myself

That said, there is one error in the above article.

The part that says:

"PHEV batteries have less environmantal impact than current nickel batteries" is currently not true.  It may be true in the future.

Right now plug-in batteries are 15 times to 20 times larger, and require 15 to 20 times more raw material and manufacturing, and are good for about the same amount of time (10 years) as current hybrid batteries.  They allow you to use less gas, true.  But the investment cost ( in both dollars and raw material ) up front is very large.

Unless they were totally benign ( not! ) using 20 times as much of something may not be cleaner that using 20 times less of some nickel based batteries, which are, fairly benign to begin with.  :)

I think Hank's point is that PHEVs necessarily have to use lithium ion batteries, which are non-hazardous, unlike NiMh batteries.

That's a nice list of pros and cons.  Thanks for posting it.

Please tell me how Lithium batteries are non-hazardous.

I'd LOVE to see proof of that!

Also, how are NickelMH batteries more hazardous?

You have nickel plated coins in your pocket or purse.

"According to the U.S. government, lithium ion batteries aren't an environmental hazard. "Lithium Ion batteries are classified by the federal government as non-hazardous waste and are safe for disposal in the normal municipal waste stream," says Kate Krebs at the National Recycling Coalition. While other types of batteries include toxic metals such as cadmium, the metals in lithium ion batteries - cobalt, copper, nickel and iron - are considered safe for landfills or incinerators (Interestingly enough, lithium ion batteries contain an ionic form of lithium but no lithium metal)."

Source here.

NiMh appear not to be hazardous either - perhaps I was thinking of nickel cadmium batteries, which are.  Lithium ion batteries are smaller than NiMh batteries at least.

Edited by dana1981 - Sat, 08 Mar 2008 19:22:34 GMT

I invite you to see my PHEV Prius at www.phevprius.blogspot.com

edited to add link

Spotted this today 3-wheeler- not bad range, and if you put wings on it..... it might fly!  Produced 1990 to today. ;-) :

The CityEl Electric Car

As seen in a hotel lobby in Berlin, January 13, 2008

Bits of info I learned from the rep on hand:
14,000 euro, 60 miles per charge, they build 300/year, 70% charge in 3 hours