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Cool-N-Save to lower airconditioning cost - Page 2

post #31 of 78

 

  Here is the info on the filter

The filter uses a combination of different technologies to help disperse the mineral scale.  First, the primary active ingredient used to prevent scaling is a low molecular weight polyacrylate.  This chemistry has been used in industrial water treatment for +20 years.  It’s used for prevention of mineral scale in cooling towers, once through systems, and steam boilers.  The active chemistry is very safe and non-toxic.  Polyacrylate is used in diapers and many other common products used daily.  Polyacylate is a polymer which use charge modification to disperse scale forming minerals such as calcium carbonate.  The chemical is slowly released by using our patented Smart Release technology.  Our company has patented various polymer coatings and membrane materials for slowly and consistently releasing dry chemical compounds over a defined set of conditions (flow, temperature, etc).  The principle of controlled release is based on osmotic pressure.  The active ingredients are covered with a semi-permeable polymer coating.  This coating lets water inside the coating which turns the dry chemical into a slurry or sludge.  This creates a very high concentration of chemistry inside the coating and since water always wants to be in a state of equilibrium, osmotic pressure forms inside the coating which then starts to push the chemical out of the polymer coating.  The polymer coating then restricts how fast the chemical can release into the system.  This produces a nice, linear controlled stream of chemical applied with the flow of the water.  As you can tell, there has been a significant amount of R&D that has gone into this technology.  Our company has been developing similar products and technologies used in heavy duty diesel engines and cooling towers for the last 7-10 years. 

 

Now, here is the important part.  As long as water consistently touches the areas of heat transfer and stays wetted, the scale inhibitor will disperse the scale forming minerals.  Additionally, the water flow is a once through system which means there is little to no concentrating effect in the water which lowers the potential for scaling conditions to occur in the first place.  In areas that do not consistently get wet – example over spray areas, there will be a slight build up of all the minerals in the water from simple evaporation.  If the water completely evaporates to dryness, all of the minerals in the water have to go somewhere – this is not a chemical issue or problem.  The chemical dispersant tries to tie up the calcium in the form of calcium acrylate as opposed to calcium carbonate.  This material is easier to clean than calcium carbonate mineral scale.  But the key is keeping areas wetted.  Areas that consistently get wetted should not scale up due to the once through nature of the system design in combination of the scale preventing chemicals added to the water.  Again, this chemical technology has been in existence for many years, the main difference is the controlled release technology we developed to slowly and consistently treat the water stream in an economical manner. 

 

I hope this helps.  I have attached a power point slide which illustrates the release of the active chemical compound.  Let me know what other questions you may have.

 

Best Regards,

Steve Mosher

Business Development Manager

Smart Release Technology

 

post #32 of 78

Hi Brian - thanks for the information. Now to study it and what ever else I can find - water treatment has a tendency to make your head hurt. Very much of it is science but followed up with the art of application.

 

In many industrial plants the most misunderstood section is water treatment.  

post #33 of 78

Just a little thought. I use citric acid to clean my hot water pot, which is a very convenient gadget - a combination of English electric kettle and thermic pot. Either near boiling (for coffee) or less hot water (for tea) is always avaiable by a push of button.

 

In long term, some ingredients in the water build inside the pot and requires cleaning occasionally. Citric acid works the best, but probably only when it is heated. You may be able to remove the scale with citric acid dissolved in hot water.

post #34 of 78

Hi Brian,

 

I expect a local commercial nursery supply would have everything you need to make a system now that you have seen one and know what it is.

post #35 of 78

I will only do that, if the new unit fails also. Although the items to make it are relatively cheap, there is always the time input. At $99 it's not too expensive. Saw it on another site for about $80.

post #36 of 78

Hi ,

 

Cool-n-save is now available from Florida Eco products for $99.95 with FREE shipping to anywhere in the US.

 

www.floridaecoproducts.com/product.sc

 

Thank you, Paul

post #37 of 78

Here is the other site I saw, for about $85, not sure what shipping is, you would have to compare. Sent all the info to a way too smart engineer friend of mine. He went over the info, including filter, said its a good idea.

Thank for the info Paul, just wish companies, I have no problem with companies posting their prices or products. Just please identify yourself as being associated with that company. http://www.etigogreen.com/product/CNS101


Edited by kantoquad - 5/14/2009 at 05:10 am GMT
post #38 of 78

Today, I'm sitting out on my deck in about 98 degree heat with my misters going, I hear the A/C kick on and I think, "what if I put water on the A/C Condenser?"  Would that lower my bill? A little research later and I'm at this discussion group.

 

Since today is the first day thinking about this product, I have of course not purchased it.  What everyone seems to be worried is about is the quality of the misters.  As I mentioned previously, I've had misters on my deck for 2+ years.  They are cheap.  They clog.  They don't always mist correctly.  Looking at the Cool-n-save, it looks like the inventor did not reinvent misters but instead put most of his effort into the "Flapper."  This is what the video called "Patent protected."  As long as the Flapper is well made, the rest of the stuff is just off the shelf at a local hardware store.

 

This is exactly what I was after when I started doing my search.  I guess I'll go buy and see how things turn out.

 

Rob

post #39 of 78

The sites mentioned both talk about flash evaporation and seem to try to make this sound like a high pressure mist system which it is not - those systems run at high pressures, not line pressure and therefore require a separate pump.

 

Sounds like Brian is having success despite a few problems. 

post #40 of 78

I see some more posts on the cool-n-save. Unfortunately, it is a little too early for me to have firm evidence the thing works. This has mainly been due to the success of a whole house fan with weather averaging high mid to upper 80's and low in the upper 50's. I have been able to keep our house around 72 with very little A/C use( remember my wife has a condition that  makes cooler temperatures important). However, I think it works based on a few nonscientific observations ( we are now having a strong warm up). First, the air coming out of the vents seems colder, it seems to run for shorter periods, and finally, the  exhaust air on the outside condenser it now hot as compared to when I turn it off.  The ultimate test will be on our 110 degree days that we get 1 or 2 of every summer. My slightly undersized unit really struggles and cannot keep the house in the low 70's even running constantly.

post #41 of 78

Just found this little video with Ed Begley Jr. regarding the Cool-N-Save.

  

 

Not to say that Ed Begley is king of green or all things that work, but I would generally think that the people that produce his TV show would do some research before they showcase any products.

 

Anyway, it's kind of interesting to see it in action.

post #42 of 78

I have one of these I ordered a couple of months ago. It arrived in a couple of days and was easily installed, I have only had to turn the AC on once but it really did seem to cool faster

post #43 of 78

If anyone believes what fools on TV say and promote - please drop me a line as I have this wonderful bridge to sell - cheap even!

 

TV personalties get so caught up in themselves they are only vaugely aware of the world.

 

I have seen other things attached to Begley's name which are highly suspicious - wind generators of the flakey sort for one.  

post #44 of 78

So I was watching the Living with Ed episode today and saw this product, did a little research and found this forum.  I live in Texas, around San Antonio.  Needless to say, we have high humidity, but I noticed someone from Houston on the thread, so that was reassuring.  My main question is concerning my water supply.  I have well water that is extremely high in iron.  My filters are clogged with red chunks of iron constantly, it is rather disgusting.  What will this filter on the cool n save do for me?  Also, what will the iron do to my AC unit?  How does the high humidity effect this system?  Thanks for any feedback.

post #45 of 78

Hi Brian - anything more about buildup on your heat pump after using this for a while? 

post #46 of 78

Not a thing on the condenser. Used it for several hours a day  for a week with temps in the upper 90"s. I happen to have relatively soft water  ( low Ca+ and low Mg+) that is high in iron ( not as bad as Kim). There is not even the white residue on the ground around the unit ( calcium acrylate). I think Vinegar should help remove the iron as well. It does in my shower. I would email them about the iron. The designer seems to take a very active roll in contacting people. The other very nice difference between you in Texas, Kim and me in California, is we have low humidity. So you have a balanced budget and low taxes, pick your poison.

post #47 of 78

If anyone is going for this type of item you might look at the following site

https://nerissa.secure.kgix.net/~ezmister/index.php?option=com_phpshop&page=shop.browse&category_id=11&Itemid=26

 

They offer:

a. misters + fittings & hose for 34$ 

b. solenoid valve for 24$

c. polyphosphate filter for 16$

 

I guess shipping is extra but wouldn't be much

 

They seem to be upfront with information

post #48 of 78
I just got my coolnsave at the beginning of this month, I don't think ill see any significant cost reduction on my electric bill this month since its 15 degrees hotter in houston then the same time last year but i can say it's keeping my house 25-27 degrees cooler which normally it will only do 18-20 so it must be having an effect.
post #49 of 78
I installed a Cool H Save today on my unit but I have been using a home made device and it works. I used misters that worked with my drip irrigation system but I had to manually turn them on and off. I simply recorded the amount of time the outside unit ran with and without the mist (at 90 degrees it never stopped) and with a mister it cycled on and off at 90 degrees and above.

I live in Hattiesburg, Mississippi about half the year and our average relative humidity in the summer is high and on a 100 degree day the combination is rough. I have used a fan that also has a mister for when I cook out or want to cool off after working in the garden-it does a great job. We have had very hot weather for about two weeks but with humidity around 55% and that's the way it works here, the hotter it is the lower the actual humidity.

I purchased the Cool N Save based on my positive experience with my home made rig and because it has no electricity needs like others do. No electrician to pay. The valve is very simple and it's a neat concept and it uses a very small amount of water.

I do clean the inside and outside coils every year with a cleaning solution made for that purpose and it helps. Most outside units are partially clogged with grass clippings and inside units with dust. I change the filters each month.

I ordered the unit on June 18 and it came in this morning. I don't have a problem with the price.


I am working on an idea to pressurize rain water I collect in in a barrel so that I can use it more easily in the garden and for this misting system. I will use a large heavy rubber balloon that kids use for a punch ball with an air fitting connected to it. The balloon is inside the sealed barrel. As it pressurizes, it pushes the water out through a line I installed. I use a 12 volt air compressor and I am looking at recharging a battery with a solar panel to run it. I'll have to either refill the barrel or use a line to bring water from another barrel.

The idea is to move the rain water easily to make better use of it. Maybe I'll just get wet but in this weather that is OK.
post #50 of 78
I also followed the directions to flush the filter and lines before adding the misters and managed to make myself read the directions before pulling the wires out of the mister lines which would have been a bad thing. Very simple installation.
post #51 of 78
 What! You actually read the instructions before making a mess? 

I always manage to make the mess first and only as a last resort while trying to salvage things do I read instructions.
post #52 of 78
My experiences have deterred me if not educated me.
post #53 of 78
An update, it is still early to say how much, if any, this is saving me. I can say that it cools more efficiently. It has been between 106 and 110, the last 2 days. Because of my wife's condition, she requires a temp of about 70 degrees. My AC used to not be able to keep that temp on days like these, but it has kept it there. So I believe I can state it probably reduces power use.
post #54 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by kantoquad View Post

An update, it is still early to say how much, if any, this is saving me. I can say that it cools more efficiently. It has been between 106 and 110, the last 2 days. Because of my wife's condition, she requires a temp of about 70 degrees. My AC used to not be able to keep that temp on days like these, but it has kept it there. So I believe I can state it probably reduces power use.

Wow, that's great to know that with the unit you're still getting 70 degree temps even when it's in the 100's outside.

Keep us posted on anything else you find out.
post #55 of 78
This is the equivalent of watering your condenser with a garden hose.  Where does the water come from and where does it go?  You simply trade one environmental impact for another.  It may be OK to waste your money, but not your water. 
post #56 of 78
Bob, it only uses a little over a gallon an hour, not the equivalent of spraying water from a garden hose. I know that water is used in electrical generation. I am unsure of how much, but I am sure this has far less environmental impact. Conservation is about choices, you offered none. I am not sure what to make of your last statement. If I waste my money, I am using more electricity. If that is what you meant, causes more green house gases. I welcome your input, but all that it your statement shows is negative, not constructive.
post #57 of 78
 
Typical power plant water consumption figures - just for general information
 
 
type gal/mW l per kW
coal 500 1,88
nuclear 500 1,88
NG combined cycle 200 0,75
trough CSP 800 3,00
dish engine 20 0,08
CSP 784 2,94
dry cooled trough 80 0,30
nat avg all thermal 470 1,76
post #58 of 78
Thanks Russ, congrats on the moderator title. It is in good hands. Lets see, my A/C uses 5 kw/hr approx, the Nat average is 1.76 L/kw. 5 X 1.76 = 8.8 Liters.  That about 2.32 gallons. The cool-n-save uses 1.4 gallons per hour. It advertises to cut electrical use by 1/3. Saving about about  .78 gallons. So, the cool-n-save uses about an extra  0.6 to 0.7 gallons per hour and saves 1.67 kw of electricity.  That seems like a good trade to me. If it makes Bob feel any better, I won't flush 2 times a day and we are even. Appreciate any input or correction to my numbers.
post #59 of 78
Hello like minders!  I saw the Cool-n-Save ad and Crazy Ed video a couple of weeks ago. The skeptic in me took over immediately. However, the theory makes perfect sense to me. My only problem is the cheap flapper control doohickey. I live in North Ga, just 35 miles N NE of Atlanta. We get hot summers and high humidity. I assume the same is true at Tulane University in Louisiana, but much worse.  I have soft water and like my upstairs home office in Summer no hotter than 73. Currently, that requires a medium sized window unit in the home office. Rather than risk the potential warranty issue with my three year old properly sized HVAC system, I plan on trying this concept on my window unit 1st with locally purchased parts. What are the proper size for the misters?  If anyone comes up with a better solution replacing the Cool-n-Save flapper valve, either manual or powered, please share it. Again, I realize the easiest solutions are usually the best. Kinda like me using reusable Grocery bags instead of the Topsy Turvy Tomato Grower. lol

Alcohol free, Cheers


 

Edited by Dred55 - 7/8/2009 at 04:58 am GMT
post #60 of 78
Hi Dred55,

Welcome to greenhome huddler!

You might try dropping kantoquad a private message about the nozzle size - he has been through the thing in some detail. You could easily use a solenoid valve to turn the water on and off - might have to get an electrical type to connect it in to the system.

Good luck and let us know please,
Russ
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