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post #31 of 43

Let's try to keep the discussion civil, guys.  Corvus has provided info on their dealership and a link to their site for those who are interested, and Russ has given his opinion about Corvus' hybrid comments.  I suggest we leave it at that.


Personally my feeling about hybrids (especially the plug-in variety) is that they fill a demand for people who aren't satisfied with 50-200 mile range EVs.  Once we get either a recharging infrastructure in place or longer range batteries, it won't be an issue.  Until then, some people don't want to worry about range anxiety.

post #32 of 43


Originally Posted by dana1981 View Post

Let's try to keep the discussion civil, guys.  Corvus has provided info on their dealership and a link to their site for those who are interested, and Russ has given his opinion about Corvus' hybrid comments.  I suggest we leave it at that.


Personally my feeling about hybrids (especially the plug-in variety) is that they fill a demand for people who aren't satisfied with 50-200 mile range EVs.  Once we get either a recharging infrastructure in place or longer range batteries, it won't be an issue.  Until then, some people don't want to worry about range anxiety.


Very well put Dana, and thanks for stepping in. There is absolutely room for hybrids as incremental improvements from where we are, PHEVs from there, and hopefully full on EVs as soon as possible.


Let's keep it civil - thanks all!

post #33 of 43

Thank you're an oasis of common sense.


Hybrid cars are gasoline and oil cars. Hybrid cars burn gasoline and burn oil.


Another problem with hybrids is they have virtually no impact on reducing our nation's dependence on foreign oil. Another realization about hybrids is that as long as U.S. automakers can continue to con Americans into buying hybrids, U.S. automakers will NOT have any motivation to produce an all-electric vehicle for the masses. In other words, when you buy a hybrid, you are ensuring that U.S. automakers keep avoiding producing all-electric vehicles. When you buy a hybrid, you are continuing to buy, burn and belch gas and oil products. The only way America will STOP buying oil and gas for their gasoline cars is by SOMEONE providing all-electric vehicles at reasonable prices.


Too bad Obama doesn't know the score on these issues.


.r o n



post #34 of 43

Have you ever had a dream where you screamed out loud but no one hears you?


That's how I feel when I tell America:


GM, FORD, CHRYSLER, TOYOTA AND HONDA have NO INTENTION WHATSOEVER of EVER producing an all-electric vehicle for the masses. They know they will put themselves out of business if they produce all-electric vehicles under $40,000.


GM and Chrysler ADMITTED on their own websites they cannot produce the Chevy Volt for less than $40,000 and make a profit - and the Chevy Volt is NOT, NOT an all-electric vehicle, but a hybrid instead.

GM lobbyists wrote the legislation that they got passed which provides for a $7500 federal tax credit based on battery size. This is how GM conned Congress into giving them a tax credit to help them sell gasoline and oil cars.a.k.a. the Chevy Volt. btw, if you buy a car from Corvus Cars, you get a $7500 federal tax credit and a state tax credit as well.


When you buy a gasoline/hybrid car from an American automaker, you are complicit in keeping America dependent on foreign oil and gas.


I still think most folks don't get it though; don't they see that years ago, GM realized they CANNOT survive selling all-electric vehicles. That's why GM KILLED THE ELECTRIC CAR!


GM and the rest of the U.S. automakers KNOW they MUST KEEP the gas and oil flowing under the hoods of America's cars. There are THOUSAND AND THOUSANDS of part suppliers who make MILLIONS AND MILLIONS selling the THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS of auto parts associated with gasoline engines.


The widespread use of all-electric vehicles would ELIMINATE 95% of these part suppliers.


.r o n


.r o n

post #35 of 43

Well I have to disagree with you on some of these points.  Nissan, Mitsubishi, and Ford are all developing fully electric cars, for example.  Nissan in particular seems to be high on EVs.


As for hybrids and plug-in hybrids, they certainly reduce our reliance on foreign oil.  The less oil you use, the less you're reliant on it.  Plug-in hybrids in particular could dramatically reduce oil consumption, because they can go a significant distance in pure electric mode.  Most people drive less than 40 miles per day, which for plug-ins in development like the Volt, could be done without any gas.


Personally, I'm planning on making my next car an EV, but I certainly understand people wanting that gasoline safety net for the times they need to go long distances, at least for now.

post #36 of 43

Dana, I couldn't disagree with you more. Hybrids do NOT reduce our dependence on foreign oil, because 40 miles per outing is not enough to make a difference in OIL consumption. Further, hybrids are THE excuse U.S. automakers point to when they are confronted about producing an all-electric vehicle for mass production.


You seem to believe U.S. automakers are going to begin mass-producing all-electric vehicles, and until then, hybrids are acceptable. Nothing could be further from the truth. Nissan, Mitsubishi and Ford are NOT, NOT, NOT going to produce an all-electric vehicle in your lifetime. Believe that.


Do you understand why I say this? BECAUSE none of those manufacturers could survive by mass-producing and selling all-electric cars. Mass-producing and selling all-electric cars would mean virtually ELIMINATING the U.S. gas/diesel engine parts suppliers and the profits associated with that industry. All-electric cars simply do not require thousands and thousands of engine parts. All-electric cars do not need a 10-yr. 100,000 mile engine/powertrain warranty, etc.


Nissan claims they will have one all-electric model by 2012 yeah, for $45,000! FORD claims to have an all-electric prototype by 2011. Mitsubishi claims the same. My point is, NONE of these U.S. automakers are going to fully produce a true mass-production all-electric model anytime soon, whereas I offer many all-electric right models here and right now - not one day.


btw, Nissan's Chairman said the same thing I wrote in an article: hybrids are a scam.


I predict years from now, GM, Ford, Chrysler will ALL still be selling primarily gasoline and hybrid vehicles. The have no real intention of making all-electric vehicles to replace their gas and hybrid vehicles. They just can't make a profit doing that - they said so. btw, back in the nineties, GM sold their electric battery plant to who? TEXACO! These were the batteries GM used to power their EV-1 electric vehicle they recalled and crushed in the desert.


btw, a few days ago, GM recalled 1.5 million of their gasoline and oil-based cars, because of leaking oil catching the engine on fire.


Do you really believe U.S. automakers are going to replace even half their mass-produced models with all-electric cars? If you believe that, I have some swampland in Florida to sell ya.


I will probably remain one of the very, very, very few dealers to offer all-electric cars for under $20,000.


I dare say you will NEVER, EVER see GM, Ford, Chrysler, Toyota or Honda offer an all-electric vehicle for less than $30k., because of mgmt., the unions and the corporate structure itself.


.r o n

post #37 of 43

I don't really feel like arguing about this, so I'm just going to make a couple points and leave it be.


1) If you drive a range extended electric vehicle (a.k.a. plug-in hybrid) 40 miles or less before plugging it in, you use zero gas.  Even hybrids clearly reduce our oil consumption, but there is no question whatsoever that plug-in hybrids do.


2) Mitsubishi is already producing and selling the iMiev.  Not in the US yet, but in Japan already, and soon in the UK.  Bottom line is that auto companies need to produce the cars that people want, or go out of business.  If people demand electric cars, auto companies will have to make them.  Same goes for hybrids and plug-ins.

post #38 of 43

r o n,


The tortoise lays on its back,  its belly baking in the hot sun, beating its legs trying to turn itself over.  But it can't.  Not without your help.  But you're not helping......
post #39 of 43

I agree.  It's sort of like the medical industry creating a cure for the common cold.  It will never happen, and we all know why.   I repeat to my friends time and again, the American Government, and the American Car companies (the big 3) just Don't Get It.  They brag about hybrids getting 41 miles per gallon--which, from my perspective is abyssmal, given that the 50 mpg mark was passed in the 70's with full gas engines.     The Big 3 used the SUV to overcome progressive rules for emissions and MPG requirements in the 80's and 90's, then blamed the consumer for buying the only thing being made.  Chrysler's lineup this year doesn't even include a small car (what happened to the Neon??)  I say, let them go under, and allow new startups (such as Zap and Green Vehicles) all of the advantages we can give them to create EVs that have 400 mile ranges.  The big 3 had 35 years to do it, and squandered it away--and blamed th econsumer all the way to the bank.   I'm buying an EV this year.

post #40 of 43

Not against EV's at all - they are a far better choice and hybrids are a midpoint on the path.


I get tired of people blaming someone else for problems though. Congress went along with and is still going along with allowing the allowable mileage to stay too low. Seems everyone over 18 has an opportunity to vote for or against those clowns. 


The Asian companies are forcing the issue though - they are coming on strong again with hybrids & EV's. Startups are pushing everyone and making new opportunities.


As best I can tell the consumer bought the SUV's - I haven't heard of anyone being forced to buy. The auto companies have shown remarkably little foresight with no doubt.


Fortunately they & their unions are in the toilet now and if they can ever get out they will maybe, just maybe, be a bit smarter.

post #41 of 43

Auto of the year honors from numerous publications, foundations, and agencies are handed out to good acclaim. I found this here: Various car of the year awards slant to green vehicles. No real consensus really exists for what constitutes a true vehicle of the year, but that doesn’t stop awards from being bestowed. This year seems seriously tipped in favor of green cars

post #42 of 43

Amusing thread.  It took me a while to comprehend the old/new post dates!  Hindsight is great for me when it comes to EVs.  I am a little tired, so I might not seem to have enjoyed my EV which I bought in 2007.  I did; but it turned out to be an expensive and impractical nightmare.  I gave up - sold it; and 2 weeks later it broke down mechanically.  And with a huge non-private garage with no outlets I will not buy another 100% EV from another country any more.  


I saw 1 GEM, and looked at a 2007 Zenn (discounted since it needs $2000. batteries) .  2 Miles are on Craigslist nearby, but have not been sold over a year.  


I saw a Corvus- on Craigslist- about a year ago.  I thought they were not available in California for infringement reasons with Smart cars.  By now I would have expected  hundreds of Triacs, not 1 in a distant land.  "Pie in the Sky" is alive  and well!

post #43 of 43
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